The Girl Who Left and Came Back…(and the covenant and baptism)
A young girl about 18, baptized as a baby in a Reformed church but who had not publicly professed her faith, had become a terror to her parents. She was disruptive at home and she rebelled against all the authorities in her life. She drank too much, did drugs and sold them, had various sexual encounters with many different men, had various run ins with the police, she was charged with assault for beating up another girl at a party, she spent many nights in jail and she never came to church. In fact she said that she hated God and did not believe in Jesus Christ. Her Church and her family prayed for her regularly for almost two years as she drifted further away into her ruinous lifestyle. Then an old friend of this young woman reached out to her one night after she spent the night in the drunk tank. They met a few nights per week for coffee and began talking about life. Over the course of a few months the young woman asked her friend if she really believed all this stuff about Jesus. Her friend opened her Bible and began to share the gospel. After many hours, in the early morning, she went home. Her father met her at the door expecting her to be drunk and high, but she wasn’t. She was crying. At the age of 20 she announced to her parents with tears of repentance, “I just got saved.” She declared, “Jesus came to me in my sin and despair and picked me up and saved me…I just got saved! He saved me! He died for me!” Her dad hugged her and invited her in.
The story goes on about her going to A.A. and N.A, growing in faith, meeting a godly man and getting married… God truly worked repentance in her.
But I have a few questions for my Reformed friends. That night when she repented, did she just get converted? Or did she simply backslide and was brought back by God’s grace? Was she unregenerate prior to that evening? I am asking these questions with the covenant in mind. I am interested in the reasons we use to baptize our children as Reformed Christians and what your view is of our children’s regeneration. Your view of why we baptize children will fundamentally affect your answer to my questions above.
For some context, there are 3 main explanations in Reformed theology as to why we baptize our children. Here they are in a nutshell for you in no particular order:
- The first explanation of why we baptize children of believers is that because of being born in a Christian home and being in the environment of the church these children are more likely to be converted than the children of unbelievers. In fact, the children are unsaved, and must be regarded as unsaved until such time as they give evidence of faith, but they are in a better position to be saved than other children. This was the view of some Puritans and of Jonathan Edwards.
- The second explanation of why we baptize children of believers is that all the children of believers without exception are in the covenant in this sense, that God promises them all salvation and extends to them all His covenant grace in Christ. However, the actual fulfillment of the promise, the actual reception of covenant grace, and the actual realization of the covenant with them personally depend upon their believing in Christ and thus taking hold of the covenant when they grow up. The covenant consists of promise and obligation, which obligation is a condition that the children must fulfill in adulthood. The promise from God is for all without exception. But if the child should not fulfill the demand that he believe, he forfeits the promise.
- The third explanation that although all the children of believers are in the covenant and therefore receive the sign of the covenant and are reared as covenant members, the covenant of God is established with the elect children only. The promise of the covenant is for the elect children only. The promise does not depend upon the faith of the child, but the promise itself works the faith by which the child receives the grace of the covenant in every child to whom God makes the promise.
All 3 views are “Reformed”, all three views baptize the children of believers, yet all 3 are fundamentally different.
Do you think the girl just got saved? Or do you think that she was always saved?
If you baptize your children, why?
Which view do you think is Biblical?
Do you know which view your church holds to?
I am interested in hearing some thoughts on this. To all my friends from other traditions who do not believe in baptizing their children, feel free to weigh in with your views, however I am seeking answers specifically from those of the “Continental Reformed” and “Presbyterian” traditions.
Hello,
I believe that the covenant is given to Gods elect only and that this girl was always saved, because God has chosen her and given her to Christ before the world was ever created! But I do believe that God works his holy spirit in all of us at different times of our lives and brings us to truly know our Saviour personally in his good timing…But this girl was always part of his covenant and the promises that were given her at baptism could never be taken away…
Thanks for posting this it is so good for all of us to think about why we believe what we were thought. Tammy
The second is the one that is Biblical. The girl was chosen before the foundation of the world, remained in the covenant, albeit under the curse, while she lived in rebellion, and regained the benefits of being a covenant daughter when she repented and submitted to the Lord’s claim on her.
I agree with Coosje. The second option is the Biblical one. So thankful for that! When a child dies before he is old enough to understand he is saved because he is a child of the covenant.
Hi Ryan there is no Scriptural foundation for Baptising Children, they are under Grace until they can understand what is good and evil and this is as God tells us not man made rules and Traditions. We are under a new Covenant in Christ Jesus, we are circumcised by the Spirit in our heart not in the flesh. God is just and does not send a Child or the Mentally Challenged to suffer in hell for Eternity because they can’t understand about Salvation, nor does He punish them for the sins of their Parents.
Dedication that is preformed by some Protestant Churches today, is agreeing with God that a Child will be nurtured in knowing Him by their Parents and the Church but the Child must come to heart repentance willingly themselves when they understand the Truth of Salvation. God does not go against our fee will but they will have True heart repentance in their life if they are known by Him before they were conceived as going to do so and they will be perfected in Love as they are conformed into the image of Jesus Christ.
Falling away is not falling into sin, it is rejection of Jesus as your Lord and Saviour but this is in the heart not the head. We must never judge anyone’s Destiny, they may come to heart repentance on their deathbed and so they will escape the flames but will have no rewards, their lives were wasted. Saying we know Christ is more than just words, we can’t earn our Salvation it is a free gift but we will show we have it and it’s all about Love when we are Born again of God’s seed 1John 3:9 because He is Love and we have His Nature and The mind of Christ so we choose to walk as Jesus walked in Love and righteousness by the empowering of The Holy Spirit. – 1Corinthians2:9-16
Christian Love from us both – Anne
Anne, Thank you for your response. Sadly, I think that this issue has Satan laughing in the streets. What issue has divided the Children of God more than this issue of Baptism? That is the reason I removed this response. I will reinstate it only for context…however i do not wish to engage in a debate on this point, because we both know that I am not going to persuade you and you are not going to persuade me 🙂 All it will accomplish is to divide us even further.
I want to address your first point…God is just. Yes he is. He is also Love. But we are all sinners and we are all born in sin. The bible teaches that no one is righteous, that includes children and the mentally handicapped. We all need a saviour, because left to ourselves we would never achieve salvation – no one, not you not me, not the handicapped and not the infant. I do believe that God saves children who die, but not based on their own merit, or based on their “not knowing better” but based on Christ’s sacrifice and God’s sovereign grace. If it were true that God saved people because they don;t understand about salvation, he would save all the people in all the tribes around the world who have not heard the gospel message – yet he told us to go and preach the gospel to all nations…why? According to the line of argument you use, it would be better to not evangelize and leave people to themselves…because then they would go to heaven. But that is not what our lord told us to do.
I grew up believing that the Bible taught a believer only baptism, and I was baptized when I was 19 years old as a public profession of faith. However, now I have changed to a different view based on how God deals with us in scripture. I do believe that there is scriptural foundation for baptizing children of believers, because God deals with us in covenant.
All the children of Israel were circumcised, yet not all of them were saved. Take for instance Jacob and Esau. Isaac was able to say to both of his boys that the Lord had claimed them to be His children (Genesis 17:7). Both had the promise that God was their Father, both had the promise of the forgiveness of their sins through Christ, and both had the promise that God would dwell in them through His Holy Spirit. Yet Jacob went to heaven and Esau went to hell (Malachi 1:2,3). Esau did not embrace God’s promises in faith, while Jacob did.
Protestant theology today largely states that children are not to be baptized. Reformed Theology, which I now adhere to, however says that Scripture teaches that children belong to the Covenant along with believing parents…like both Jacob and Esau. God’s promises in Jesus Christ are meant for our children too. The Gospel speaks of God sending His Son to pay for my sins when I have not asked Him to do so. While I was yet a sinner, Christ died for me. It was God who imposed His covenant gospel and his salvation, on me and on my children. I do not have any say in the matter. God is God, and I am a sinner. I believe that this is the deciding factor with regard to baptizing or not baptizing infants:
**How do we view the relationship between God and the sinner?**
Do we view salvation as God’s work or man’s work? Today the distance between God and the sinner is shrinking. So, instead of baptism being about God’s promise of salvation, about God’s sovereign work in me, baptism has been made into a sign that faith exists in my heart, that I choose to receive God’s promises and believe in Him.
Baptism in this way is a sign that I have faith in Him. As soon as one raises himself to being able to choose God, he implicitly lowers God, and this is the difference between Reformed view of baptism and the majority of Protestantism.
When Baptism becomes about me, about my faith, about what I have chosen, it is at this point that that we lose our comfort. If baptism no longer signifies God’s deeds to me, if baptism instead signifies that I have faith in my heart, then we lose comfort. All of us have an ebb and flow in our Christian experience. We all struggle with indwelling sin, with fears and doubts, some days I am strong in faith, other days I am weak. If baptism is about what I have chosen to believe, rather than about God’s sovereign work, then how can I have security of salvation?
Baptism is about God saying, “you are mine.” Not about me saying to God, “I am yours.”
It is far too in depth to debate this in the comment section of a blog 🙂 Anyway. I am glad you are reading and i am glad that we are discussing these things and looking in scripture to see what God has revealed to us.
Blessings!
Not sure where your reply to my comment that I received in my Inbox went Ryan but I hope you will understand the need for my extended reply, I felt that detail was needed and will provide the Scripture if wanted.
As I shared before there is no Scriptural conformation that Children have to be Baptised under the New Covenant in Christ Jesus or circumcised and we are no longer under the Old Jewish Covenant in the Old Testament.
God tells us that we need to come to heart repentance and as Jesus example shows us to also be Baptised which testifies we are under grace and is also showing outwardly because we are sinners that we acknowledge this and so are choosing to accept our free gift of Salvation in Christ Jesus and we are also claiming freely that we believe in Him and what His Name means, which is He is our Lord and Saviour and Part of The Godhead or Trinity as They are called today, 3 in One. Although we were sinners we are saved and cleansed from our passed sins and set free from the Slavery of sin, which now means we can choose not to sin and walk in The Fruit of The Spirit by His empowering, no Temptation will be greater then we can bear. To say we have not sinned or it doesn’t matter if we do, meaning we don’t need Salvation, shows we are in darkness and is also calling God a liar.
When we are Born again of The Holy Spirit and this will be shown by our actions we have chosen to turn from evil and do good and so we put our flesh to death by The Spirit and are perfected in Love, it is our choice if we do this but it is not works it’s our obedience. God does not want puppets and He does not go against our free will, He wants us to freely choose Him, just as we would want our Children to freely choose to Love and obey us because we know what is best for them, this does not bring Him or us down but shows we are wanted freely, if we force someone to accept God or us it will only be in their head not their heart. God knows those who are His from Eternity by His foreknowledge of our heart repentance which comes from knowing we are deeply Loved by Him and none of us will perish, meaning be Eternally separated from God, He is patient giving us time.
As for Esau the Scriptures tell us his actions were evil and we see by his name that God knew His heart and so his destiny as He knows ours and our name too, He knows all things. This is why He said He hated Esau, his actions were evil and God hates evil which is the absence of Love and Evil cannot co – exist with Holiness. It was Esau lack of True heart repentance for his evil actions that caused him to be lost eternally but this was his choice not to repent of His disobedience and turn from evil the same as the Israelites in the desert, they were not allowed to enter the Promised land which although a reality at the time, is also an allegory of Heaven as is the Garden of Eden which is factual and is also our foundation for of all the Scriptures.
The Israelite Children who did not know good from evil were not punished for the sins of their Parents and were allowed to enter the Promised Land. The effects and example of their Parents sins were passed down from each Generation up to the 4th. Jesus died for all Mankind so we can be forgiven of our past sins and to set us free from the slavery of sin and we can now freely accept our Salvation and choose not to sin and we will be empowered not to. Today we are saved and being saved as we work out or show we have Salvation, not because of the Old Testament Covenant, that was only a shadow of the things to come but because of God’s grace in Christ Jesus who has set us free.
I am neither Protestant or Catholic or a Cult member, I am a Child of God and under His grace and Authority and saved eternally, I do not choose to sin and I’m empowered not to, no Temptation is greater then I can bear, Jesus is my Armour but I still have weakness and shortcomings, I’m not fully perfected in Love yet but I’m aiming for it as Paul did and I will be perfected as he was and others were before they died and all those who now choose Salvation by God’s Mercy and Grace. I have also asked for and received God’s wisdom as He promises us and Jesus our only Teacher by the empowering of The Holy Spirit, is Teaching me all things.
I’m willing to listen and share God’s Truth but will not accept man’s fleshy understanding, logic and reasoning, I want the confirmation of Gods inspired written word as Jesus The Living Word gives full understanding and I will provide what is wanted by others to confirm God’s Truth that I share.
Christian Love from both of us – Anne.
P.S The girl you shared about Rayne, had never arrived to be able to leave, when she had heart repentance it was only then that she accepted her free gift of Salvation in Christ Jesus, untill then she was still in darkness shown by her evil actions although still known by God but like the Prodical son, she was dead in her sins but not Spritually dead shown by the fact she came to her senses like he did.
Many Blessings Rayn – Anne
Baptism is a sign which signifies that God extends his promises to the child through the parents. Baptism does not mean a child is automatically saved,
Children are not baptized on the presumption that they are saved either. They are baptized on the
the basis that they are born into the covenant through believing parents and have the blessings and warnings related to the covenant.
Regeneration (being saved, born again) is usually a process where God uses various circumstances to bring faith to maturity, so that the fruit of faith can be seen. Sometimes (as with the girl) we cannot always tell or confirm when that is, as was also the case when Simon the sorcerer was baptized ( professed hi faith) and then did not show the fruits of faith (Acts 8:9-25)
I think ‘Road to Damascus experiences’ are also possible but not common..
Aubrey